QRZ! Ham Radio 4/QRZ Ham Radio Callsign Database - Volume 4.iso/digests/tcp/940246.txt

Internet Message Format | 1994-11-13 | 37KB

Date: Wed,  2 Nov 94 04:30:02 PST
From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group <[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: List
Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #246
To: tcp-group-digest


TCP-Group Digest            Wed,  2 Nov 94       Volume 94 : Issue  246

Today's Topics:
                                9600b
                  If they're gonna sell... WAKE UP!
    If they're gonna sell frequencies, what about these? (5 msgs)
                  linux and ne2100 ethernetcards ??
                 Our Hobby (was :Young Amateurs etc.)
                     Selling frequencies & apathy
                           SMTP forwarding
                          User-Mailbox WG7J
      Young Amateurs (was: If you're gonna sell frequencies....

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Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available
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We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 1 Nov 94 10:28:00 PST
From: "UCLA::CORBIN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: 9600b

Forwarded for/from Mike, wd6ehr...
========================================================================
sigh....

I see the old dead dog has been resurrected, and he's still as mangy and
fleabitten as ever.  Let me try to put him back to sleep, where he belongs.

WOOF!  9600 baud is not for the "normal" ham.  Bow-wow!  You need to be an
engineer.  ARF!  You MUST have an oscilloscope and service monitor or you'll
find yourself in the 9600 doghouse.

Simply not true!

I have never used a service monitor when doing radio modifications, although
it would be helpful.  While a 'scope is nice, it is far from a necessity
unless you're redesigning equipment to do something it was never intended to
do in the first place - or if you're setting up a DRSI DPK-9600.  But the
DPK-9600 is a high performance packet machine.  You don't tune a Lamborghini
by ear, either :-)

The following 9600 baud setup procedure is for all you non-engineer types.
It works jim-dandy with the TEKK KS-900 and KS-960, and should work with any
other radio truly capable of 9600 baud operation; and most 9600 baud modem-
TNC combos.  All you need is a known good nearby 9600 baud station, and
optionally a receiver (i.e. HT, etc.), speaker (8 ohms or greater), frequency
counter and 'scope.

1. (optional) Set TX frequency

If you use the frequency counter, first calibrate it with WWV 10 mHz and an AM
SWL receiver - just zero beat the counters 10 mHz clock rock.  Next, check
your transmit frequency.

2. Set TX Deviation

Set your TNC into CAL mode.  Adjust the modems TXA pot so the hissing sound is
a little less than the HT's open squelch.  This is not at all critical.  It
gets you "in the ballpark".  Then you type Q (or whatever dumps you out of CAL
mode), and go on the air.  Tweak your modem TXAudio pot slightly until things
work their best with your neighbors.  If you have a g3ruh, use the BERT (Bit
Error Rate Test) mode and have the receiving station connect a speaker across
the BERT test points.  Listen to the clicks (each click is a bit error) over
the phone or HT and adjust until they are at a minimum.  With other modems,
just adjust for best throughput.

3. (optional) Set Rx frequency

For receive frequency, if you have a 'scope, have the other station send you a
CAL signal and adjust the receive crystal for best eye pattern.  If you have
no 'scope, just adjust receive frequency for best throughput.

That's it - you're all set!

This is nothing more than what *should* be done with 1200 baud packet.

Now if you want to redesign radios to do something they were never intended to
do by the R&D staff, yes you DO need to be at least a competent technician,
and you will need proper equipment.  But it's really unfair to blame 9600 baud
for the unqualified trying to do jobs beyond their abilities.  Like someone
Dirty and Hairy once said, "A ham's got to know his limitations".

If you're a REAL appliance operator, just order a TNC/modem/radio combo
already set up and adjusted.

--
mike

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Nov 94 09:04:12
From: [e-mail]
Subject: If they're gonna sell... WAKE UP!

So I probably ought to have just erased all these messages in disgust....
BUT!!!!

This thread has become yet another stupid and infantile dance, characteristic
of the ostrich-like behavior of hamdom in general!

To Jay and Gerry: Like Texas is a "Paragon of Virtue"??? Since When?? Is it
still just as screwed as it was when I left in July '93? Our visionaries
talked a good rap, then the VHF folks regularly (select one:)
(tabled/discouraged/canned/jawboned) to death any serious proposals for local
work other than Texnet or a pie-in-the-sky trans-state FDX backbone. Right,
so Houston fractured and San Antonio did its own thing and there was lotsa
good will... Gimme A Break!!! Same story nationwide, different verse.

> > 1) who  would be on the air without the assistance of Kenwood Inc or Icom
> > Inc or Tapr Inc etc etc.
>
> Depends on what I'm trying to do.  And you?

I damn sure am and will!

> > 3) how many Amateur Radio licensee's could pass their last FCC exam or even
> > a, dare I say it, a no code test.
> Well... yes...
> > 4) On the subject of no code..how many of us could muster up 13 wpm..or
even
> Next silly question?  Aside from the fact that I now subscribe to the idea
> that CW is no longer necessary save as a historical right of passage, I can
> still do 20 or so with little preparation.

It is a silly question!... Like why do Freemasons have a funny handshake? Why
are men expected to wear a necktie? --- All a bunch of BS!


> > So, I don't see the problem as FCC intrusion but rather Amateur Radio
> > comunity atrophy.
>
> Maybe this is a sign of a wakeup call.  I'll support a wakeup call.

Me too dammitall! This is the REAL bottom line. Every region of the country
has it's peculiarities. Amateur operators have always come from the ranks of
the "geek-nerd" element in the general populace. We have been proud of that
heritage (and I guess we still are!), but we have maintained our ugly side
that gets in the way of (anything other than individual) progress. That ugly
side has been called the "not-invented-here" syndrome or the
"anarcho-sydicalist" prediliction that we have fostered. Remember the
repeater offset wars? Canadian vs TAPR model of TNC function? The wars
between Wayne Green and the ARRL bureaucracy? How 'bout now with the umpteen
flavors of defective/bogus "networking" we have foisted upon each other?

We should have shut down ham radio and combined it with CB in 1976. We should
have totally deregulated the sale of HF equipment and allowed US CB'ers to
shut down Radio Moscow and every other HF broadcaster on the planet! The cold
war would have ended in the early 80's instead of '90-91 because we would all
be fighting each other in anarchy wars in our own countries!!! Ain't it a
great solution???

Networks take agreement, they take regulation, and we amateur radio operators
are not visionary enough or mature enough to even agree that we must do some
self organization and self regulation to survive... WAKE UP!

Flames to devnull guys.... enough is enough!

KD4IZ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Nov 94 09:37:49 -0600
From: [e-mail] (WALT DUBOSE - K5YFW)
Subject: If they're gonna sell frequencies, what about these?

I just *HAD* to make a comment (or two) here.

I sent Chris a message last night telling about my 19.2 Kbaud/70 cm
TCP/IP operation from home.  I forgot to tell him that Gerry and Kurt
([e-mail] and/or [e-mail]) have been working with
the TEKKs at 9600 and could Elmer him (be careful not to get TAMoooo
on the info).

In Brandon's message of 31 Oct 1994 at 2257 EST, he writes:
> In your message of Mon, 31 Oct 1994 21:11:17 CST, you write:
> +---------------
> | Chris makes an eloquent point, folks.  We need new blood in the hobby.  We
> | need folks who start playing with this hobby as teenagers who will start
> | learning the arcane arts of what we do.  And it's no longer just RF, but that,
> | too is a big part of it!
> +------------->8
>
> It's getting a trifle more difficult of late...  I talk with the folks who run
> the Mentor H.S. radio club fairly often.  Their latest problem is teachers who
> can't tell the difference between ham radio gear and pagers.  :-(

        Boy is this true plus schools are anti-technology.  There is
        a good paper on this which I will have Kris, KC5JWS, post to
        the group..perhaps not the entire paper but where it can b
        found.

        Several of you should read it...especially if you're and
        educator and many of you are....I can tell from E-Mail
        address and signature text.  I might also be helpful for
        Chris and other learned and astute high school students to
        read this.


>
> | want to do... Or, what I'm afraid I've seen too much of lately:  Ignore the
> | newcomer, and make fun of him on the local repeater!
> +------------->8
>
> Or p*ss on the ones who come in via "no-code Tech" licenses.  Rather common
> around here.  Frankly, I suspect the computer folks who are coming into ham
> radio locally because of the lure of packet TCP/IP (yes, even at 1200 baud)
> are doing more for the hobby than the old fools grousing on 75 meters... or,
> for that matter, 2 meters.  They're the ones driving the push
> for higher speed packet locally.  They're the  ones planning REAL networks.  They're
> the ones who want to experiment with higher frequencies, and different
> and better ways of doing things.  But the "People Who Count" reject
> them utterly, because most of them are no-coders and have no interest
> in either CW or HF (most of the "People Who Count" don't care about
> you if you aren't an HF contester).  See why I get so upset about
> the situation?

        Statistics show that many (I think over 50%) of the
        "no-coders" actually go on to get their general ticket.

        And quit talking about me and my 75 and 40 SSB operation (Ok
        so I'm old) and my 2m operation on 145.5 MHz (the local
        satellite users and FAXers frequency).

        I actually find that it is the extra class hams who are
        moving to high speed data rather than the new comers,
        regardless of entry class of license.  Please take a look at
        AmprNet users in your ares.

>
> And don't get me started on 220.  It was, and is, quite active around here.
> But not during the day --- it's the YOUNGER hams, who work or are in school
> during the day, who are developing it.  You'd think the FCC would support
> that...  The "People Who Count", on the other hand, didn't care about the 220
> MHz grab because there aren't any packetclusters on 220.  (Eventually, they
> learned that one of the more important packetcluster links was in the low
> reaches of 221 MHz. Guess when they learned?  When the loss of 220-222 forced
> it to be moved.  THEN they were upset about the grab.  Idiots.)

        How many of you have already written you congressman/woman
        and U.S. senators about the FCC "taking away" our
        frequencies.  Its been 5 days now since it was announced.
        I'll bet there's not 10 letters in Washington D.C. to members
        of any congressman/woman or senator.

        And BTW, does anyone know what next Tuesday is?


One last comment (for the day).  I can tell you from personal
experience and first hand knowledge that a congressional query to a
federal agency (even the FCC) can strike terror into the
department/employee charged with answering the query.

Walt (dba k5yfw)
An Aggie by Act of the Texas Legislature

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Nov 1994 12:39:06 -0500
From: "Brandon S. Allbery" <[e-mail]>
Subject: If they're gonna sell frequencies, what about these?

In your message of Tue, 01 Nov 1994 09:37:49 CST, you write:
+---------------
| > are doing more for the hobby than the old fools grousing on 75 meters... or
,
| > for that matter, 2 meters.  They're the ones driving the push
|
|         And quit talking about me and my 75 and 40 SSB operation (Ok
|         so I'm old) and my 2m operation on 145.5 MHz (the local
|         satellite users and FAXers frequency).
+------------->8

Sorry; I didn't make it clear enough that I was speaking of the LOCAL (that
is, NE Ohio) hamcommunity.  Around here, it often seems that if you aren't a
contester (CW preferred) you're a turd, and the majority of local hams will
treat you as such.  There are exceptions (LEARA's officers go out of their way
to welcome and encourage young hams), but e.g. the Lake County club has
degenerated into a retirement community and is increasingly putting its
efforts into (a) contesting and (b) getting more *retirees* into ham radio.
Most notable was when a recommendation to the board of directors to supply ham
radio books to the local schools was transmuted by a block vote of the older
hams into a donation to local libraries, EXPLICITLY STATED AS BEING TARGETED
TOWARD OLDER PEOPLE.  They didn't care about the schools and one of them even
tried to get school libraries *dropped* from the proposal!

Maybe people are beginning to get the idea of why these subjects are hot
buttons with me.  I dearly hope that what I'm seeing locally isn't reflected
in the national amateur radio scheme, because if it is then Fred is right:
all that's left for ham radio is to take away thge frequencies; it's already
dead.

As for AmPRnet users in my area:  mostly Tech/TechPlus.  I'm very unusual for
the local area as an Advanced licensee on the TCP/IP net.  I thought that was
clear in my comment.

++Brandon
--
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH     [44.70.4.88]        [e-mail]
Linux development:  iBCS2, JNOS, MH                     ~\U
Hatred is NOT a family value.            Earth to Rothenberg, come in....

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 16:23:33 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: If they're gonna sell frequencies, what about these?

On Tue, 1 Nov 1994, WALT DUBOSE - K5YFW wrote:

> I just *HAD* to make a comment (or two) here.
>
>         How many of you have already written you congressman/woman
>         and U.S. senators about the FCC "taking away" our
>         frequencies.  Its been 5 days now since it was announced.
>         I'll bet there's not 10 letters in Washington D.C. to members
>         of any congressman/woman or senator.

   I'd bet that you over estimated here Walt, by about nine letters.  One
of the most powerful things any group can do is WRITE, especially during
an election year, to their electeds.

>
>         And BTW, does anyone know what next Tuesday is?

   Well dont know about in Tejas but here in Maryland its "git rid of
the lame duck day".  You want some action in DC, congress, etc, this
is your chance to get someone up there that can do something about
it.  Dont blow off the voting responsbility because it's an off
year or "mid-term" election.

> One last comment (for the day).  I can tell you from personal
> experience and first hand knowledge that a congressional query to a
> federal agency (even the FCC) can strike terror into the
> department/employee charged with answering the query.

  That's the truth.  Having been on the end of the stick (when
I was in the Governemnt) that had to answer one of these is really an eye
opening experience.

> Walt (dba k5yfw)
> An Aggie by Act of the Texas Legislature

  jd k1zat
  (Yankee by birth, TEXAN by choice, stuck in Maryland).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Nov 1994 17:40:16 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Harold Price)
Subject: If they're gonna sell frequencies, what about these?

Louis A. Mamakos <[e-mail]> said:

>And the choice of AX.25 is just astonishing!  Who thought that
>adapting a point-to-point LAPB protocol for use in a multipoint,
>multi-access environment is a good idea?  Where's the advancement of
>the state of the art?  As far as I can tell, AX.25 came to be due to
>blind devotion to the ISO god, and not due to any sound protocol
>design.

I like to jump in from time to time, and counter this "ISO God" stuff.

Two groups implemented AX.25 on devices that were, or became wide spread and
spawned countless clones.

Hank, KA6M and his group in SF, and TAPR in Arizona and LA.  I was on the
conference call in 1982 (maybe it was 1983) between a group in LA (NK6K,
KD4NL, WA6JPR, and WB6YMH), and Hank, where it was decided to implement
AX.25 first.  The ironic part, for you ISO conspiracy theorists, is that
Hank was a staunch supporter of RFC-based protocols.

The decision was not based, as you would hope, on what was best for the
network in 1994, when multi-mips, 500mb hard drives, and 8mb memory are
considered "entry level".  It was not based on 100,000 users.

It was based on using AO-10, and a small number of point to point links.

It was based on taking a step up from a protocol that had a 4-bit address field.

It was based on a pad for "dumb terminals".

It was based on the protocol that the people at that time were offering to
implement.

AX.25 may have remained a paper protocol, as many do, if it were not for the
fact that KD4NL and NK6K had just written a LAPB protocol, Dave for a 6809
and me for a Z-80.  We wrote it for a point to point interface so we could
link our field day site at 8000 ft in the mountains above LA down to my
shack in Redondo Beach, on two meters.  We wanted to do computerized logging
and duping, and we didn't want to risk my 8" floppy drives on my S100 ($500
for two, 160kb each) in the dust on the hilltop.  This was regular lapb,
used for the purpose for which it was created.

TAPR was soon to come out with its TNC, but the original software group
hadn't come through.  They had to have a protocol, quickly.  As I was on the
hook to 16 locals as "TAPR Beta Coordinator" for the area, and since the
LABP Dave and I had writted was close to the AX.25 that had been proposed
for use on AO-10, TAPR picked AX.25 to implement, and Dave and I (and
Margaret in Tucson) ported LAPB to the TAPR TNC.

Hank volunteered to do an AX.25 for the old VADCG boards, so his user
community in SF would be able to talk to the new boxes.

Unfortunately for the 1994 network, TAPR was in the right place at the right
time, and thousands upon thousands of TNCs were sold in a few years, all
with the protocol derived from a point to point satellite service and a
field day logging system, in ROM.

The rest is history.

>  Where's the advancement of the state of the art?

At the time, the state of the art was 5-bit baudot, at less than 110 baud,
no addressing, and no error correction.  AX.25 was a huge advancement.  It
looks pretty silly now, of course.

There has been advancement in the state of the protocol art (the use of
tcp/ip, and incremental tuning to make it more relevant to slow shared
links), but the protocol has little to do with our current problems - no
advancement in our 1940s FM/FSK modulation techniques, no low cost
off-the-shelf high speed data radios, and no organized nationwide network
building entity.

Should we have done a TCP/IP stack in 1983?  I still don't think so.  Most
home computers, if you had one, were memory limited (64k).  The TNC had an
astounding, for the time, 16k of ROM (maybe it was 32).  The model was not
distributed computing, but remote terminal access to a central resource.
(TNC = Terminal Node Controller, see?).  We were building a PAD.  If we had
done a TCP/IP Hank and his mini-computer at his office would have been on
the air, but few others of us would have.  The goal at the time was to allow
people to experiment with digital radio, to give them a common building
block (the TAPR TNC), and see what happened.

What was supposed to happen was better radios, better protocols, and a
network.  What we got was linked RLI BBS systems.  That's not to say that
RLI was wrong, for the time, either.  It gave the impression of a network
when none existed, however.

I think Phil wrote NET not much after it became possible to do so, meaning
the size of the compute reasource available to the average ham was not able
to support NET in the years preceeding its development.

Had TAPR delayed the TNC until 1988, and started with a simpler TNC with
KISS, and dreivers for UN*X, a lot less people would be on packet.  The need
for digital radio was such that someone else would have come up with
something anyway.  Several someone elses did, of course.  There was a V3
protocol in Canada, the SoftNet protocol in the Sweden, a polling scheme in
Ottawa, etc.  Did any of these other groups, which didn't use LAPB and were
therefore presumably not under the influence of the ISO storm troopers,
implement the RFCs?  Nope.

>[stupid things]Like AX.25 putting ASCII call signs
>(oh, yes, shifted left by one bit) in *every* packet!?

I guess you weren't there at the time.  The problems with the VADCG protocol
at the time were thought to be:

1) limited address space
2) Requirement for a central authority to distribute address.

No one viewed a 14 byte header as a problem.  One of the complaints about
TCP/IP at the time was the even larger header.  Call signs still wouldn't be
a problem if we were using 56kb links, and larger packets.

The callsigns were a solution to the problem to be solved, no one wanted a
big brother to assign addresses (one big brother (FCC) was enough), and no
one wanted to transmit a CW ID once every 10 minutes.  An ID in each packet
made the FCC happy, and isn't all that much overhead.  Now, we have many
little brothers, handing out IP addresses, some doing a good job, and some
not, and we have no requirement to ID in CW because of the legacy of calls
in packets.

Anyway, when people speak of the shame of admitting to co-workers that
they're using 1200 baud AX.25, the shame is in the 1200 baud, not the AX.25.
 Would they laugh any less if you proudly said 1200 baud IP?  They'd think
you were touched for even bothering.

Amateur Packet Radio turned out to be more of a sociological experiment than
a technical experiment.  Can a large number of poorly linked groups (how
ironic that this is a communications hobby), with no central leadership, no
defined goal, and no funding, come up with a viable network, or even the
tools to build one?

Compare even cities with a lot of unix/nos activity with part 15 digital
radio networks, and you have to wonder.

Harold Price
NK6K

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 15:34:28 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Carde (ARHS 96))
Subject: If they're gonna sell frequencies, what about these?

>
>I just *HAD* to make a comment (or two) here.
>
>In Brandon's message of 31 Oct 1994 at 2257 EST, he writes:
>>
>> It's getting a trifle more difficult of late...  I talk with the folks who run
>> the Mentor H.S. radio club fairly often.  Their latest problem is teachers who
>> can't tell the difference between ham radio gear and pagers.  :-(
>
>        Boy is this true plus schools are anti-technology.  There is
>        a good paper on this which I will have Kris, KC5JWS, post to
>        the group..perhaps not the entire paper but where it can b
>        found.

  This is definitely true. I've been yelled at by teachers for simply having
an HT in my possesion during school, regardless of whether or not it was
even on or off. I don't feel that it is fair to generalize that all schools,
or at least all school teachers and faculty, are anti-technology -- there
are some teachers that are quite the opposite -- techonologists and
futurists more than I could ever hope to be.

>        Statistics show that many (I think over 50%) of the
>        "no-coders" actually go on to get their general ticket.

  I feel like hiding behind something as I say this, but I haven't upgraded
past technician, and so far I haven't seen anything that would motivate me
to upgrade. My interest (high-speed data) is situated on the VHF+ bands
anyway, and for me learning CW doesn't seem logical, considering all the
other methods of moving data around much more efficiently.

 Chris

--
 Christopher Carde        \      Amateur Radio: N1KEX       /  PGP Encryption
 [e-mail] /  AX.25/IP: [e-mail] \  key via FINGER
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "We'll forget the sun, in his jealous sky, as we lie in Fields of Gold..."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Nov 94 15:28:00 -0000
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bilow)
Subject: linux and ne2100 ethernetcards ??

On 94 Nov 01 at 12:11, pi8esk wrote:

 p> Now my question: has somebody tried also the kernel 1.1.18
 p> with the NE2100 cards and is it possible that the NE2100
 p> driver under LINUX is not working 100%..
 p> Looks here if only the TX part of the driver has an error...

You can write off kernel 1.1.18 in general.  Linux nomenclature is that kernel
versions x.N.x where N is odd are test kernels, where versions where N is even
are release kernels.  The latest test kernel is up around 1.1.60.  The latest
release kernel is 1.0.9.

-- Mike


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Nov 1994 17:13:15 +1000
From: [e-mail] (Dave Walmsley)
Subject: Our Hobby (was :Young Amateurs etc.)

Tim said:
>After reading the past few messages regarding the growth of younger
>generation amateurs, I thought I'd give a few opinions.

        A lot of good things, I wont repeat them, just say GOOD Points.

>
>So, I think the best way to get young people into the hobby and keeping
>them here is to be excited about your hobby yourself. Elmer the kids.

        Here Here!! why not get excited about our hobby, to many we're dorks
BUT I'm still excited about it, IT IS MY HOBBY and I'LL CRY (as in yell,
scream plead, beg) IF I WANT TO ( to paraphrase an old song).

>Don't just show them your shack. Take them to the repeater site and strap
>their butt to the elevator and let them ride to 2000 feet. If that
>doesn't get them interested (or a heart attack) then they prolly don't
>belong here anyhow. Let them connect and ammeter directly across a power
>supply and see how much current that Astron REALLY puts out (luckily I
>did that before college!) Get the kids excited. Keep them excited. Let them
>push the envelope. I regularly get blasted around here for trying to get
>something new to work. But the heck with those hams. I'm looking for the
>ones I mentioned above.
>

Excitement, like laughter, is infectiuos (I can't spell, hope that was right
;-)), we may infect soemone else with the bug if we're game enough to show
our feelings about it.

Dave
--=====================================================================--


Dave VK2XPX, sysop VK2RAP                   [e-mail]
                                            [e-mail]
                                            [e-mail]

=========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 94 16:30:06 EST
From: [e-mail] (c.small-acacia-ele-student-90064116)
Subject: Selling frequencies & apathy

Jack said:
> This thread has become yet another stupid and infantile dance, characteristic
> of the ostrich-like behavior of hamdom in general!
[...]
> "anarcho-sydicalist" prediliction that we have fostered. Remember the
> repeater offset wars? Canadian vs TAPR model of TNC function? The wars
> between Wayne Green and the ARRL bureaucracy? How 'bout now with the umpteen
> flavors of defective/bogus "networking" we have foisted upon each other?
[...]
> war would have ended in the early 80's instead of '90-91 because we would all
> be fighting each other in anarchy wars in our own countries!!! Ain't it a
> great solution???
>
> Networks take agreement, they take regulation, and we amateur radio operators
> are not visionary enough or mature enough to even agree that we must do some
> self organization and self regulation to survive... WAKE UP!
It is heartening, in a way at least, to hear that around the world we have
the same problems.

I thought it was just some quirk of sydney amateurs to have these long
drawn-out wars.  We have certain 'sides' that have been staring down each
other since AX.25 was introduced and someone didn't like it because it made
their screen beep.

These same 'sides', amongst other things, have helped the WIA (VK's version
of ARRL) become the total mess it is.  It is the reason why we have the
stupid rules for packet, though this will apprently change real-soon-now.

The moral?  I'm telling a new and ethusiastic group of people on packet to
make sure they look after themselves and their area first, the rest of the
'community' is too fragmented and used to going to war to be helpful.

  - Craig vk2xlz
--
//   /\     |    |   |  | |   ... Craig Small   [44.136.8.58] ... ...
||==|--|====|====|===|==|=|   ... INTERNET: [e-mail]
\\   \/     |    |   |  | |   ... AMPR    : [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 20:21:56 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Roy Freeman)
Subject: SMTP forwarding

I use KA9Q as a ip router off my LAN.  However IF I try to send mail via
PCEudora to the KA9Q server the process of transfering the data hangs.  I
though this was a software compatibility problem until I did the same thing
with two laptops connected via a slip interface and the SMTP process
functions perfectly.  If I try to forward mail via SMTP using packet radio
the same error in forwarding mail to my mail smtp server connected to the
LAN.  To confound me further the SMTP process functions perfectly if I
forward mail from the LAN to my remote user.  The software that I use on
both the LAN and the remote site is the same.  So my question is what have I
done wrong to the LAN SMTP client/server.  PS POP functions perfectly on
both sites.  All other services ie telnet,ftp,ping work fine on the LAN

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Nov 94 09:39:19 EST
From: [e-mail] (Lorgia Valencia - FIE(873083))
Subject: User-Mailbox WG7J

           Hello TCP-GROUP.

           Somebody know how I can create users with their respective
           mailbox for the services POP2 and POP3 in the version
           WG7J v1.02 of KA9Q.

           Any help I will be with you very greatefully!!

           Lorgia Valencia Macias
           from Ecuador
           [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 20:19:18 -0700 (MST)
From: Tim Baggett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Young Amateurs (was: If you're gonna sell frequencies....

After reading the past few messages regarding the growth of younger
generation amateurs, I thought I'd give a few opinions. I feel I can
give a fairly realistic look at the younger generation's view of amateur
radio since I'm 23, and have been licensed for nearly 10 years (yikes!
QCWA before 40???!!!)

Christopher, I know your position so very well. I was licensed when I was
14 in Roswell, NM. The next youngest ham was 24, the next youngest was
37. The largest majority were retired, since Roswell and much of the
southwest is a retirement center. The same thing when my family moved to
New Braunfels, Texas. I found the 'remains' of an old high school radio
club (IE, tower with HALF a yagi on it), but never could get any other
information about it.

But, many young people are missing a great resource that we have. The
other hams can be a great resource of knowledge and help. I was basically
offered a job before I graduated from college, because of someone I knew
in this hobby. I have met *many* very good people, and have a lot of
great contacts for just about anything (jobs, information, free chips,
references, etc etc) My elmer has pretty much become a grandfather to me
over the years. Much can be learned from the people you meet in the hobby.
I even know the Dean of our Graduate School on a first name basis because
he's a ham. Younger hams need older hams to look up to - elmers.

Christopher is right about the cost associated with using the license,
once it has been obtained. I ran a Hallicrafters HT-32 for a LONG time on
RTTY (talk about frequency hopping!). When you get into college you can
do something different however - SPEND SOMEONE ELSE'S MONEY! Find a
University that has some form of a radio club and you can get funding for
your projects. It gets tough trying to convince the student senate just
why you need a 'thing' called a Terminal Node Controller that will sit on
a mountain and get struck by lightning, but it can be done. Get to know
other hams, and use the junk they don't want! Junk is great! And you
don't feel bad when it explodes :-)

The technology we hams use is, well, yes, quite something to
laugh at. Compared to what we can do on the Internet, packet seems a
little crazy.

I'm not sure what will attract younger people into the hobby - especially
with the competition of computer networks. But I think those kids who
just sit at a computer terminal are basically playing any how. Is Doom
really that educational? How about IRC? The stuff on Usenet is trash. I
don't know how a generic computer whizz kid can connect his computer up
to a real network any play with network routing, or how he can tweek on
his telephone modem. The only place I know of that this can be done is
Amateur Radio. Show kids what they really can do in amateur radio - not a
SSB QSO or a 1200bps ttylink. Potential young hams already thing ham
radio is boring enough. Show 'em the sparks and what experimenting is
really about!

Think of what you can do with Amateur Radio that you cannot do over a
phone line. Heck, my old Hallicrafters exploded once too (Thank God it is
build better mechanically than an HT), but I ended up WINDING MY OWN COIL
to fix it. How many college grads do you know can say they've done this?
Even SHOW a recent college grad a vacuum tube and they'll look puzzled.
The people on the repeaters don't like you? Find those who do. Build your
own repeater. We did it here in Las Cruces. Know a guy who worked in the
commercial radio business. We raided their trash bin nightly looking for
radio's they threw out. Explain THAT to the cops driving by :-) But the
repeater worked - and CHEAPLY too. Looks like hell, but it works!

The hands on experience one can get from this hobby is incredible. I was
recently offered a job from Ericsson (cellular). The manager interviewing
was a bit taken when I asked if I would get to climb the cellular towers.
Out of the whole group on the company tour, I was the one asking about
the cavities, CSU/DSUs, TDMA, analog security, and even the auctioning of
frequencies. No, I'm not trying to brag here. The point is THIS HOBBY
gave me that opporunity. I'm refusing the job for graduate school - even
though I HATE formal education like crazy. I've been flamed before
because I think in a textbook manner. Ha. I'd prefer to build it up and
really test it any day of the week.

So, I think the best way to get young people into the hobby and keeping
them here is to be excited about your hobby yourself. Elmer the kids.
Don't just show them your shack. Take them to the repeater site and strap
their butt to the elevator and let them ride to 2000 feet. If that
doesn't get them interested (or a heart attack) then they prolly don't
belong here anyhow. Let them connect and ammeter directly across a power
supply and see how much current that Astron REALLY puts out (luckily I
did that before college!) Get the kids excited. Keep them excited. Let them
push the envelope. I regularly get blasted around here for trying to get
something new to work. But the heck with those hams. I'm looking for the
ones I mentioned above.

After all, our frequency bands are at risk here.

73
Tim, AA5DF
[e-mail]
New Mexico State University Electrical Engineering Student (still)

------------------------------

End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #246
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